Moxie

You probably know how I feel about atheists (I am unsettled about the topic – especially since their moral Locus of Control has a tendency to become internal). But a persons belief system is not static. It’s got a magnitude and vector to it.

The question is: From whence you came and to which direction are you going? You can judge that in a person by what they say and what they do.

There are Christians I do not choose to associate with even though they are on my ‘team’. There are those of Jewish extraction whom I could call brothers and sisters. Could I not do the same about an atheist? Are they not also capable of being seekers of truth, though their road is a harsh and unforgiving one?

Don’t I also consider you, Moxie, a friend?

Atheist Conservatives…

Today, Moxie mentioned a blog started by some atheist conservatives called Secular Right. For those who may not be regular readers of Moxie’s, she is an atheist who was raised as a Catholic ……

For me, I don’t think about ‘scoring points for the afterlife’. Its seems too much of a simplification of the way things are. There are people who live their life that way. Hopefully they will outgrow it.

The older I get, the more I wonder about existence/nonexistence after death and the whole silliness of Angels with wings and sitting on clouds strumming harps and all that sort of nonsense.

I think for us people to contemplate death on this side of the ‘River Jordan’ is like asking “what is life like 5 miles north of the North Pole. The question is meaningless.” (Quote by Stephan Hawking in regards to the composition of the Universe moments before the Big Bang).

… and the idea that G_d is in the form of a man with a white beard living in the clouds – that’s for kids. I think we can all agree on that.

Though I am Catholic, and I do believe in spirituality, I do feel that our viewpoint is way over simplified and caricaturized by those who are hostile to Catholicism (or religion for that matter). You don’t strike me as hostile, btw.

It will be interesting to hear your viewpoint as to why you’ve chosen the path you have. Considering your polite disagreement with us who do believe in God, I will be more apt to have ears to hear what you say.

Thanks for reaching out, Moxie.

“To thine own self be true.”

Nino, you are one person I believe really does have angels!!

I’m an atheist, cro-magnon conservative. I have no problems with religion and people who are religtious. I do want all to respect my thoughts, as I do theirs. I see issues like abortion and gay marriage as something that needs to be separated from political debate. How ever right or wrong (I have problems with abortion, I have no problems with people marrying who they love) issues like these have had a serious negative effect on the conservative movement. Think about it, there’s a lot of fence sitters who look upon single issue abortion types and scurry the other way, and no matter what Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity say, we can have a conservative movement that includes another 10% of the population.

There should be no surprise that atheists would find it imperative to live an honorable, honest and moral life. It is crucial to the mindset. Without it, we’re just beings floating around looking for an angle, if you will.

“I know theres angels.They are ALLWAYS looking out for me…………..Nino”

…and you are probably someone who can be alone and not be lonely. Thats awesome.

Not many people have faith as strong as yours.

“I know there are angels, because Moxie is one! ”

Yes… she definately fits the modern imagery of one, doesn’t she? Minus the wings, of course….

I don’t want to sound condescending.
I was once an atheist.
I did not use it as an excuse to promote my own self-interest over that of others for lack of fear of punishment. Therefore I can recognize that others (like our hostess, the DuToits, etc.) might act similarly.
However, that left me without a compass for social mores, except for what I internally felt was “right” or “wrong”. Liberal social policy looked generous and kind-hearted.
Perhaps if I’d had more of an exposure to conservative thought then, I would have thought different.
It was only after I became convinced there was a “Master” of creation that I sought His opinion on the matter. And conformed. And then saw the wisdom of it.
If other Christians had a similar path, it would explain our surprise that someone could come to a socially conservative position (economically conservative is easy as it can be seen as self-serving)) without the same guidance.

As a Christian, I’m embarrassed when people who call themselves Christians act like jerks. Most Christians recognize that there are many atheists and agnostics who act the way that we should.

This may be a good time to repost a video I put in the comments a couple of months ago – because it is precisely how I feel about living sometimes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn7_tho2vUI (* It starts at ~1:12*)

“Dear god, whose name I do not know, thank you for my life. I forgot how big…”

I think Joe Vs the Volcano is an acquired taste. You’ll either _really_ like it or _really_ hate it.

Just thought I’d warn you, Nino.

Personally, I liked it (as you can tell)…

People who are comfortable abdicating their personal responsibility and intellectual curiosity to the constraints and edicts of religious dogma and (generally) a belief in a “supreme” being are certainly entitled to do so. I just wish they would do it in private, stop telling me they are “right” that they see the light and I am wrong and in the dark, stop demanding tax relief to help them support their mission, stop killing people for disagreeing or telling them they will endure pain and suffering, stop demanding additional parking spaces and violating local zoning codes, stop talking about our “Christian Nation”, it is not, stop insisting our legal system is based on the 10 commandments, stop confusing religion with science, stop invoking god’s name to help make a free throw, or war on innocent Iraqi’s, stop demanding concessions in the work place, keep their noses out of the legislative process trying to further their beliefs and imposing them on all citizens and finally, for god’s sake stop , insisting that without god and his punitive hand or glorious afterlife, mankind will be incapable of having a properly aligned moral compass. Western religion insists that adults sans religion are no better than children raised by wolves at controlling their impulses. This is very, very demeaning to those, like our hostess, who spit the Kool-Aid on the sidewalk. Atheists never confuse the outcome of their behavior as having something to do with the will of god, never believe that anything ever happened because god thought it was a good idea or favored someone or some country because of their beliefs. Loosing god, in fact, make life much easier to comprehend.

Who’s talking the about the will of god, strawman? Show me where my actions are the ‘will of god’.

Those are my choices.

Mine.

You have no idea how much of an ass you sound like right now.

I could out-atheist you in a heart beat you self serving degenerate.

“Do you really think like this? ”

Come to think of it, I think that would be a good base for a character in a story. Specifically, the hero.

“Do people laugh at you when you speak?”

Nah… though I have come across severe opposition. Oh no… nothing like your pathetic gestures, my poor troll. I’m talkin people who’ve had crime record(s) a mile long.

Yes, I’ve been chumped a few times… but never by you sweet cakes…